Featured Chat: Ryan Ford</p>
The following is a featured chat that took place with Ryan Ford on Sunday 13 August, 2006.
attila
Ryan (°liquisoft) thanks for agreeing to entertain and educate us today. My first question is this (please excuse the preamble): Based on your expertise in design, business and deviantART (dA) -- Can you come up with a quick analysis of deviantART's public image from a design/marketing standpoint, and share it with us?
TheRyanFord
DeviantART, as everybody knows, is an online community focused almost entirely upon art. In this right, it is unique and original, as no other site of its scale and popularity exists. But because of its size and social aspect, I think it's safe to say it would be likened to the same class as "MySpace" or "Friendster", in many ways. People interact, chat, speak, what have you, and in that way it is social. The unfortunate side effect of this social aspect, though, is that it is seen by outsiders as what "MySpace" has been getting flack for: a trendy social teeny raper site. The name "deviant" doesn't help, either. For quite some time, when I was on staff, others and I wrangled with the necessity to clean up dA's image and make it more obviously about art (art that wasn't freaky or weird fetish stuff). In my opinion, this image hasn't been shaken, and may never been shaken unless the site gets a new name or begins a campaign to educate the masses about what it does/is.
As far as marketing goes, this site is uber-low-budget. So in some ways it's unreasonable to expect a campaign of any sort. A viral video would be a start, though. However, as we saw from that viral video over in the Notices area, it's easy to do them wrong.
That video really does dA an injustice, as it only strengthens the belief that dA is full of emo Goth weirdoes who cut themselves. I know it's in jest and is funny, but because dA put a link to it they are essentially giving it their thumbs-up. Which might do more harm than good, in terms of public opinion.
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assonance
Thanks for being here Ryan, now I'll get to it.
As your career progresses throughout the next 5 to 10 years, what kind of role do you see yourself in, and how does this role differ from what you would have thought 5 years ago (if at all)? Why?
TheRyanFord
As anybody will tell you, aspirations and plans for the future never work out exactly how you want them to. This is not to say things turn for the worse, but the complexity of life simply moves you around until one day you wake up and realize your plans changed. In the next 5-10 years, my hopes are to grow as a designer. I've been focusing a lot more on complex interactive design via flash, and it's a subject that really interests me. I'm going to keep pursuing interactivity, but this not to say I'll turn my back on everything else. I sincerely enjoy all aspects of design. Maybe it's just the act of creation I enjoy. Anyway, as I learn more I wish to continue to have more say in the directions my designs head by moving up to Creative Director at my current agency, or if that's not possible I'll take my skills to another agency. Ultimately, I want to open up my own shop. 5 years ago, I think my aspirations were to simply get paid to be a designer and make good work. At that time, I was still less skilled than I would've liked to be, and I think my concepts about design as a whole were wrong or misinformed. I thought beautiful imagery was all that was to it, which is grossly incorrect. My focus, though, was on education and finding a private school that'd teach me what I needed to know. In many ways, my aspirations, then and now, revolve around respect. I think I want to be recognized for what I know by my peers, and applauded for my work. I want the children I (might) have to look up to their father and be proud of him for his accomplishments.
I don't necessarily want to change the world, but I do want people to look back on me 30 years from now and say, "that guy wasn't half bad"
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o-pie
Hey Ryan. This one is a short one... well as depthskins said you have a busy day, and after reading the journal of a day in your life, my question is:
Do you have the time or the mood to come home after work and design just for fun, for your liking? Design for yourself without the clients to set a crappy conceptual direcion as the one you mentioned in the journal?
TheRyanFord
Not all of my days are as busy as the one in that news article. In fact, this past week I've been kind of bored around the agency. Design is a profession that is either busy as hell or slow as hell; there is never an in-between. But no matter what the day is like, I still like to make my own type of work. However, much of my creativity stems from the need for a certain type of design. I mean, I find I'm much more inspired or excited about something when I've been asked to make it, and not when I'm just making it for myself. Clients don't always set a crappy conceptual direction, but oftentimes they do put too many limitations on a job simply based upon their own interests and not what is best for the problem at hand. No matter what, though, at the end of the day I'm most happy when I'm chilling with my wife and my dog.
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Skyrail
A few questions I must say, sorry if they take so long to answer, but here I go:
- On the design side of things, what programs would you say are required to a modern designer is flash really a necessity? Is it something that should be considered in the new Web 2.0 standard or are static pages (well not using flash) still a big thing that will still prevail on the web?
- One more, what would you say is the 'in thing' with web designing
? You know, colours, shapes, styles etc. Because surely there must be something that all the big sites are looking into, like rounded edges rather then sharp corners etc. Just wondering, as a developer I can't design very well so I need to see what is happening on the design side of things.TheRyanFord
I don't think Flash is a necessity, and anyone who tells you it is, well, is kidding himself or herself. Modern web design only really requires intelligent and thoughtful UI design and wonderful content to be successful. Static pages will always have their use, but I think as the web progresses Flash will become more popular simply because it is more immersive. Static web pages will likely take on a more utilitarian function, similar to Yahoo and Google where you go there simply for news and information. Oh, and as for programs, a lot of people are comfortable with Photoshop and a Text Editor, but for me I use Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Transmit, and Flash.
I think the "in" thing right now, in terms of web design, is the stereotypical Web 2.0 style. A lot of sites exist only to link to other web 2.0 sites, and I think this is furthering the idea that big text, reflections, plastic stuff, and gradations are the way to go. Quite frankly, a web design just needs good UI to be a winner.
I oftentimes look at code and scratch my head. I'm just not math-minded, so it takes me twice as long to write actionscript as it would a pro coder.
f1lly
So what got you into design in the first place? I've seen some of your earlier work, and I was hella surprised that you did it at such a young age.
TheRyanFord
Web design, etc. I think this is what led me down the road of design as a profession rather than a hobby. I've always been artful. My father was an artist and my mother was a musician, and so I grew up around art. I'd always taken art classes of all sorts, and at some point I got my hands on a copy of Photoshop. The rest progressed from there.
f1lly
What advice would you give to other designers in general?
TheRyanFord
I'd have to say "keep it simple and to the point." I see so much work that is promising, but falls short because they got caught up in trying to make things look super pretty and forgot to solve the problem. Design is all about problem solving, so that should be the first goal. The look and craftsmanship of the design should always be top notch, but it shouldn't be used in place of quality communication.
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attila
°liquisoft, You've studied and worked in design for years. With that premise, what would be two or three elements of design (or any field that you have expertise in) that you feel are largely devalued?
TheRyanFord
I'd say typography, for one, is devalued. Perhaps it is simply that it isn't respected because it gets taken for granted. Most people don't even know any other typefaces exist beyond Arial and Times New Roman. Another problem would be packaging design. Our society revolves around a consumerist culture, and in that right we buy things and dispose of things. Packaging is incredibly important to the success of a product, as it communicates the essence and quality of whatever is inside it. Most people don't even see the final product until they've bought it and opened it; they simply rely on liking/disliking the package to inform them on whether or not they want to buy it.
So how do you make something look delicious but also affordable? Or how do you make something look fun without sacrificing design?
It's tough stuff.
Also, color is horrendously undervalued. But I don't think I need to explain the importance of color to this crowd. Just look at all of the people complaining about that bluish-white on the front page of dA.
Identity design.
The logo is massively important to a company. It tells people what the company is about in a single graphic, and can make a company look like a winner or a loser. I can't tell you how many people I've seen ask for a "quick logo" and offer up $50 as payment. Logo design takes a very long time to get right, and if you sacrifice time in the hopes of saving money, you'll end up with a poor product. Think of some of the greatest logos around, and try to imagine how those company would be doing (success-wise) if they looked different. What if Target didn't use the color red? What if Chevron was written in Comic Sans?
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madnessism
Thanks for being here and answering our questions.
I once had a professor of graphic design, who was obviously also a professional in the field, tell me that having a career as a graphic designer was more about selling yourself to a client than your work. Have you ever found this to be true? Can a designer's personality and charm sway a client away from a designer who has a better portfolio? TheRyanFord
I think your professor is close to being correct, but I wouldn't say it's more about selling yourself than your work. I'd say the work and the person are on an equal level. When you speak with clients, it's about selling the work. You need a good personality and the ability to think of good answers on the spot, because clients will ask questions you haven't even thought of and you need to have a good reply immediately.
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Chaotic-Harmony
What would you say is one of the biggest concepts for beginning designers to learn?
TheRyanFord
Margins and spacing. A lot of beginning designers screw this basic concept up, big time. Everybody needs to learn to leave a bit of breathing room around objects and around the edges of the paper. How much breathing room is a matter of intuition. Far too often I see promising work be weighed down because elements are too close to the edge of the paper, or things are smooched together.
Chaotic-Harmony:
Let's say you decided to review/post feedback on a web design, what is the first thing you look at and think about in the design you are reviewing?
TheRyanFord
I don't know that there is one particular thing I look for. Instead, I basically look at the piece and see if something is uncomfortable for me. Then, I try to find the reason for that discomfort. Sometimes it's color, sometimes it's hierarchy, and sometimes it's font choice. There is never a step-by-step guide I have in my mind, though, when it comes to reviewing work.
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poomtang
There are so many people on deviantART that inspire me, not just in design but in photography as well. Without them I wouldn't be where I am today. Is there anyone on deviantART that inspires you designing wise?
TheRyanFord
I don't know if there is any one person that inspires me on the site. I'd say I'm more inspired by the work of a group of people, most of whom I have on my devwatch. Everybody I watch is good at certain things, and so I like to see what sort of ideas they're putting forth. Mostly I enjoy seeing the work posted via *designerscouch as some of it can give me new ideas about web design and functionality.
poomtang
I haven't done much paid work, but I have had some good and bad clients. Out of the time that you have been designing professionally, who would you say was the best client that you worked with and which one was the worst and why?
TheRyanFord
The worst client I've had to deal with was Hope Warschaw, without a doubt. If you look through my gallery, it was the Ditch Day 2006 invite I did for her. Everything about it was a rush. She acted as though the world would end if she didn't get the project done immediately, and she was incredibly rude to me over the phone at all times. I ended up turning the project over to a friend of mine so they could manage the printing and production work, which got Hope off my back. A few months later, she actually emailed and told me how much she and everybody else loved the thing.
The best client I've had is Explore anywhere Software. They seem to love everything I make for them, and have always been incredibly friendly. Most of the stuff I make for them I don't actually put in my portfolio, since it's all pretty insignificant in terms of designs. However, they and I remain happy with the relationship.
poomtang
I know as a designer, I suffer from artist block almost all the time when designing. Do you ever suffer from artist block? If so, what happens if you get it while at work, how does this affect you? Do you have any tips for overcoming artist block?
TheRyanFord
Yeah, I think all creative people suffer from a block from time to time. I get it sometimes, and I find that the best solution is to forget about the project and do something else unrelated. For example, if I'm trying to come up with logo designs and I get stuck, I'll usually go for a walk, go get some lunch, play pool or a game, etc. Sometimes I'll also check out work in design books to see what other people are doing, and occasionally that gives me an idea.
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Chaotic-Harmony
Pablo Picasso is noted with having said, "Good artists copy, great artists steal." Do you agree with this logic? Do you find yourself "stealing" from other designs and making them your own?
TheRyanFord
In regards to fine art, I think Picasso was right but perhaps misinterpreted. I think the comment was more along the lines of saying that all artists find good ideas in other peoples' work, and instead of trying to do something insanely original they take the idea and make it their own somehow. Hence, "stealing" it. In design, it's a similar situation. Most design ideas have been done before, so it's our job to discover the right idea for the job. Design is all about problem solving, whereas fine art is all about beauty and the artist's personal feelings. So since design is about solving a problem, you must consider that we can't go about reusing ideas simply because they might not be appropriate for the job we're working on. Instead, we have to find the right idea that solves the problem, and if it's been done before we have to find a way to make it new and fresh.
Aside from pro bono work, what would be some leading causes for you to turn down a job? Be it contractual or employed. Or, would there be any such circumstances for you?
I would only turn down work for 2 reasons: I'm overbooked and can't work on it, or I don't agree with the message/purpose of the work.
As a professional designer I think most of us would like to know what's your take on dav5 in terms of design, functionality and features? Give us a reasonable breakdown.
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ipholio
To what level would you attribute the designs of such websites as "MySpace" and facebook to their great success? And if you feel that those sites (mostly myspace) redesigned to something a lot smoother, how would you foresee their success would improve or decline?
TheRyanFordt
I think those websites are 100% utilitarian and offer no real "experience" to their interaction. I also feel that the organization of those websites is somewhat poor, and I attribute their success simply to good naming and lucky viral marketing. When I say good naming, I am referring to the ease of saying "MySpace" out loud. Two syllables makes for an easy speak, unlike deviantART, which are 4 syllables. Believe it or not, the ease of saying a word makes a person more likely to say it.
If they redesigned their sites, I can only imagine they'd see more success. This, though, is assuming the redesign is successful and appropriate. Adding a lot of glitter to a site like "MySpace" would be a bad idea. They only really need to look closer at the structure and organization of the site. One must also keep in mind that "MySpace" remains attractive to its audience because it feels cheap, underground, and personal. If it were to become more big-budget/corporate looking, its audience would begin to hate it.
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depthskins
As a professional designer I think most of us would like to know what's your take on dav5 in terms of design, functionality and features? Give us a reasonable breakdown.
TheRyanFord
I think the site suffers from a lack of hierarchy. With v5, I can see where there were attempts made to break down the content into important/less important categories, but not enough of that thinking went on for the whole site design and as a result everything looks a bit chaotic.
The features don't seem to have changed much from v4, save the news system. And as far as that goes, I think it's a failure. The news can now be submitted by anyone, and the popularity/ranking metrics look screwy. Right now, articles from 2001 are ranked amongst brand new articles about "Naked Friday," and these somehow take precedent over staff Print features and other more relevant info. Considering the vast amount of underage idiots on this site (sorry, it's true), giving people the ability to submit news and allow it to become bigger than REAL news was a big mistake. I do, however, like the news moving off the front page. At least, I like that it's not big and distracting from the artwork. I think it'd be a good idea to add only news headlines over on the sidebar of the main page, at least as a way to know what's going on.
I'm also a bit bothered by the bugginess of the site. Too many bugs give people ammunition to complain about how horrible the site is. I'd prefer to have seen the site be more completed in nature than have it delivered semi-punctually but unfinished.
I must also say that I think some of the concepts behind menu systems are flawed in terms of usability. As many people have pointed out, it's difficult to know that the dA logo on the far left of the header section is actually a menu system. Because it's the dA logo, we all just assume it's there to do what logos do best: sit around and let you know where you are. It'd work better if it were an arrow or something that said "Menu." The same goes for the online indicator man on the far right of the layout. I don't mind him being on the far right, but he needs to indicate that he is also a menu system.
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Designers' Couch Administration
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